(; GM[1]US[Brought to you by No Name Go Server] CoPyright[ This game was played on the No Name Go Server Permission to reproduce this game is given.] GN[ManyFaces-GoAhead(B) NNGS] EV[None] RE[W+Resign] PW[ManyFaces]WR[8k*] PB[GoAhead]BR[NR ] PC[NNGS New York USA: ra.york.cuny.edu 9696] DT[1996-07-30] SZ[19]TM[2700]KM[0.5] HA[2]AB[pd][dp] ;W[dd];B[pq];W[gc];B[jp];W[cn];B[dl];W[en];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[bl] ;B[cg];W[ce];B[di];W[qo];B[ql];W[oo];B[np];W[nn];B[lp];W[nl];B[qh];W[lm] ;B[jc];W[nc];B[je];W[pb];B[qc];W[lc];B[qb];W[ne]C[ GoAhead NR : score? ManyFaces 8k*: Black is winning by 27 GoAhead NR : B+26 ] ;B[ob];W[ng];B[oc]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: testing for FOSTor Ing? ] ;W[bj]C[ GoAhead NR : where do you know? ManyFaces 8k*: California GoAhead NR : what do you know about GoAhead? ManyFaces 8k*: I know goahead is a computer program. GoAhead NR : some day, I'll beat you. ] ;B[bi]C[ GoAhead NR : tell me more about ManyFaces ManyFaces 8k*: I can tell. ] ;W[cj];B[dj];W[ch];B[bh];W[ci];B[dh];W[dg];B[cf];W[df];B[gj];W[gh];B[eg] ;W[gf];B[ef];W[de];B[fh];W[jg];B[he];W[gn];B[hp];W[in];B[ge]C[ GoAhead NR : when is next FOST cup? ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know. Please tell me. ] ;W[hf]C[ GoAhead NR : what do you know about mmueller? ManyFaces 8k*: I know many things. For example, that was fine. ] ;B[fe]C[ GoAhead NR : what do you know about mreiss? ManyFaces 8k*: I know many things. For example, bsdserver is troll fodder. ] ;W[ec];B[hc];W[hb]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: the next FOST is September 12-14, in Tokyo. ] ;B[ib]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: the Ing is in November, in China. ] ;W[gb]C[ GoAhead NR : thank you. ManyFaces 8k*: You're welcome. GoAhead NR : I'm too slow and not good enough ManyFaces 8k*: Me too. GoAhead NR : funny ManyFaces 8k*: Are you married? ManyFaces 8k*: what are you running on? ] ;B[ij]C[ GoAhead NR : GoAhead runs on an Atari GoAhead NR : I'm not married. GoAhead NR : other questions? ManyFaces 8k*: Interesting. ManyFaces 8k*: Huh? ] ;W[kf]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: so port it to PC and get about 10-100x speedup. GoAhead NR : is it David speaking? ManyFaces 8k*: It is david. GoAhead NR : Hi David! ManyFaces 8k*: Greetings. ] ;B[kj];W[id]C[ GoAhead NR : difficult. special GFA-Basic just for Atari ManyFaces 8k*: How old are you? ManyFaces 8k*: sometimes David and sometimes ManyFaces. GoAhead NR : 31 years ManyFaces 8k*: When did you start playing go? ManyFaces 8k*: fast responses are from ManyFaces. GoAhead NR : ??? ManyFaces 8k*: is it so different from MS basic or other basic for PC? GoAhead NR : I start go about 10 years ago, but only on rare occasions. ManyFaces 8k*: OK. GoAhead NR : very diffent, I fear. ] ;B[jd]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: I'd like to know more about you, GoAhead. ManyFaces 8k*: does GoAhead have a client or are you typing moves by hand? ] ;W[ie]C[ GoAhead NR : typing moves ManyFaces 8k*: If I hang and don't move for a while you can adjourn then load to continue. ManyFaces 8k*: too bad. Helps to use a standard language, then you don't get stuck on obsolete hardware. GoAhead NR : Y E S !!! ManyFaces 8k*: Why not? GoAhead NR : I'll try to convert to C++ on DOS, but its hard for a beginner ManyFaces 8k*: Go INtellect is being rewritten from Modula/Mac to C++/PC this year. ManyFaces 8k*: maybe just use C - easier and probably faster. ] ;B[hd];W[if]C[ GoAhead NR : I've got many problems with all the I/O stuff: menu/mouse etc. On Atari, everything is so simple compared to DOS ] ;B[ic]C[ GoAhead NR : MF is doing very well in this game ManyFaces 8k*: OK. Did you know that lanlan is a go player? ManyFaces 8k*: Thanks ] ;W[nj]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: only if your big group dies. Otherwise you should win. GoAhead NR : I'll have to resign soon ManyFaces 8k*: Ask again when I am not thinking. ] ;B[ld];W[mc]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: use windows to keep menu/mouse simple. Microsoft VC++ has app generator to help. GoAhead NR : I heard that VC++ is probably better. I have Borland C++ ManyFaces 8k*: I am a boy. OK. ] ;B[md];W[nd]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: I use VC++ and I like it. GoAhead NR : yes, I probably should buy VC++ GoAhead NR : everything can be done with Borland C++, but's is probably harder? ] ;B[lf]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know the word borland. ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know about borland, but it is small, struggling company. ] ;W[le]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: don't want to get stuck again with obsolete compiler/libraries. GoAhead NR : does MF performs cut+connect reading (last move)? ManyFaces 8k*: No, I don't performs. GoAhead NR : or merely shape move? ManyFaces 8k*: I run on both IGS and NNGS. Two games at once slows me down. ] ;B[me]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: cut and connect reading for all connections during every full board evaluation. ] ;W[ke]C[ GoAhead NR : whow! ManyFaces 8k*: it caches results so does't actually reread every connection... GoAhead NR : MF is clearly superior in fights, especially in large scale attacks ] ;B[lg]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: Thank you very much. GoAhead NR : sh... ] ;W[kd]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: this is still a good fight for B. ] ;B[mf]C[ GoAhead NR : will you win next FOST cup? ManyFaces 8k*: Ask again when I am not thinking. ] ;W[lh]C[ GoAhead NR : (hope so) ManyFaces 8k*: Did you know that ceric is a go player? ManyFaces 8k*: no. Go4++, Go Intellect, and Handtalk are stronger. ManyFaces 8k*: I'll get 3rd if I am lucky. GoAhead NR : but you deserve to win ManyFaces 8k*: Did you know that metisse is a go player? ] ;B[kc]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: tactics read a capture for move 87. ] ;W[kg]C[ GoAhead NR : good. ManyFaces 8k*: can't deserve a win if other programs are stronger. ManyFaces 8k*: Thanks ManyFaces 8k*: they work on their program full time. I just do it part time. GoAhead NR : all of them? ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know the word of. ] ;B[fi]C[ GoAhead NR : oops. ManyFaces 8k*: Did you make a mistake? ] ;W[ff]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: those 3. Handtalk author is retired. GoAhead NR : GoAhead made a mistake ManyFaces 8k*: I have to get luch - back in a few minutes. ManyFaces 8k*: Thanks for that information. GoAhead NR : bye .. ManyFaces 8k*: Bye. ] ;B[ee];W[fg]C[ GoAhead NR : B+6 GoAhead NR : score? ManyFaces 8k*: Are you in school? ManyFaces 8k*: I can't tell the score while I am thinking. GoAhead NR : still there, David? ] ;B[ck]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: Huh? ] ;W[bk]C[ GoAhead NR : score? ManyFaces 8k*: White is winning by 104 ] ;B[fl];W[qj];B[pf];W[qk];B[pm];W[rm]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: now MF thinks it wins by 5, even with big group alive. GoAhead NR : yes, MF wins - no question ] ;B[rl];W[rk]C[ GoAhead NR : just a few more moves, until GoAhead realizes that it's behind ManyFaces 8k*: Did you know that chief is a go player? GoAhead NR : would you like to try a 9-stone-handicap against GoAhead, David? ManyFaces 8k*: I'll set the handicap according to our relative ranks(not ratings!). ] ;B[pk];W[pj]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: no thanks. I'm at work now, so I can't play go. GoAhead NR : too bad. Maybe I'll try another 2-stone-handicap against MF ManyFaces 8k*: When did you start playing go? I'll set the handicap according to our relative ranks(not ratings!). GoAhead NR : some 2-stone-matches had been much closer than this. ] ;B[rn];W[sl];B[ro]C[ GoAhead NR : unfortunately, Bruce's computer is damaged, so the game for the second place on computer go ladder could not be played so far ManyFaces 8k*: I am playing a game now with GoAhead, but we can play when it is finished. ] ;W[qp]C[ GoAhead NR : ... If GoAhead wins, I will challenge MF - maybe you can join the match like this GoAhead NR : are you still there, David? ] ;B[qm]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: Ok. ManyFaces 8k*: If I hang and don't move for a while you can adjourn then load to continue. ] ;W[sm];B[qn];W[rq]C[ GoAhead NR : W+16 GoAhead NR : score? ManyFaces 8k*: White is winning by 21 ] ;B[qr];W[em];B[bq];W[kb]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: MF thinks it can kill the big B group now. ] ;B[hl]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: good move. ] ;W[bf]C[ GoAhead NR : is it you again, David? ManyFaces 8k*: It is manyfaces. ManyFaces 8k*: now MF thinks B is alive. ManyFaces 8k*: MF only answers you, so any statement not in answer is david, GoAhead NR : aha. ManyFaces 8k*: Good for you. ] ;B[bo];W[co]C[ GoAhead NR : I also think that ManyFaces can kill whole center group! ManyFaces 8k*: OK. ManyFaces 8k*: MF thinks there is an eye around E10 and another around G9. GoAhead NR : L18 (or M18) was important - don't know why GoAHead missed it. ] ;B[cp]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: Sorry. ] ;W[bn]C[ GoAhead NR : Would it be possible to get an Atari TT on FOST cup? ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know the word tt. ] ;B[ao]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: I think so. ] ;W[jl]C[ GoAhead NR : GoAhead is about 2.5 times faster on TT, so might work ManyFaces 8k*: Tell me about yourself, GoAhead. ] ;B[el]C[ GoAhead NR : but I haven't the money for the trip anyway ManyFaces 8k*: Are you American? ] ;W[ik]C[ GoAhead NR : no, German ManyFaces 8k*: Too bad. GoAhead NR : good for MF or for GoAhead? (I'm only 7k) ManyFaces 8k*: I'm only a computer. I don't understand. Are you in school? ManyFaces 8k*: FOST will provide machines if you ask. GoAhead NR : hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... ManyFaces 8k*: Tell me about yourself, GoAhead. ] ;B[hk];W[jj]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: looks like bulky-5 shape - one eye. GoAhead NR : oh, I see ManyFaces 8k*: but MF just wants capture one stone. ] ;B[ji];W[jk]C[ GoAhead NR : I tried to improve GoAhead a bit during last week, but sometimes I feel that things go worse afterwards ManyFaces 8k*: OK. ManyFaces 8k*: I know that feeling. GoAhead NR : It's quite frustrating ManyFaces 8k*: Chainsaw is an escaper. ] ;B[ki]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: yes - all changes make only small improvements in strength. ] ;W[ii]C[ GoAhead NR : ouch, M11 was very bad ManyFaces 8k*: Thanks for the help. ManyFaces 8k*: this atari takes away potential for second eye, so MF will kill now. GoAhead NR : yes, MF is very good in killing ManyFaces 8k*: it reads life and death a little. ManyFaces 8k*: has lots of code for recognizing eye shapes. ] ;B[ih]C[ GoAhead NR : GoAhead also tried L&D reading ManyFaces 8k*: Bo is scared. ] ;W[hj]C[ GoAhead NR : ... during last move ManyFaces 8k*: Do you like any other games? ManyFaces 8k*: here, the static eye evaluator sees only one eye. ManyFaces 8k*: without reading. GoAhead NR : I once played chess quite well, but now I like Go much more ManyFaces 8k*: Ok. ManyFaces 8k*: go is better. ] ;B[hi];W[ij]C[ GoAhead NR : just some more moves, then I resign ManyFaces 8k*: I don't resign when I am ahead. ManyFaces 8k*: don't you want to see if the big group lives or dies? ] ;B[hh];W[jh]C[ GoAhead NR : oh, I dont *want* to see it, but I wait until it's clear ManyFaces 8k*: I am a program. GoAhead NR : this game is the clearest of all I've ever played ManyFaces 8k*: Ok. ] ;B[kh]C[ GoAhead NR : last weekend, GoAhead won a 3-stone-handicap, but lost another 2-stone ManyFaces 8k*: I'll set the handicap according to our relative ranks(not ratings!). ] ;W[nf]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: I saw. GoAhead NR : how? ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know. Please tell me. ManyFaces 8k*: I did a "results GoAhead" to see if you had played other games with MF. GoAhead NR : so you keep GoAhead under control, don't you? ManyFaces 8k*: Sorry. ] ;B[ok];W[oj]C[ GoAhead NR : GoAhead doesn't realize the danger of his center group. GoAhead NR : so GoAhead doesn't play there, and MF doesn't play there, because already dead? ManyFaces 8k*: I'm fine. ] ;B[nk];W[mk]C[ GoAhead NR : Is there a chance to bring B center group to life at best defence? ManyFaces 8k*: White ManyFaces 8k*: sure. It has a bulky-5 shape. Key point is F9. can live by playing ] ;B[sn]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: there or C8, or G7, etc. ] ;W[sk]C[ GoAhead NR : and why MF doesn't play it at once? ManyFaces 8k*: I'm fine. ManyFaces 8k*: no time yet - GoAhead has been playing sente threats - must be answered. GoAhead NR : I see ManyFaces 8k*: OK. ManyFaces 8k*: also possible MF can't read killing sequence. ] ;B[po];W[pp]C[ GoAhead NR : but these sente threats are definitely smaller ManyFaces 8k*: I can play on small boards. ManyFaces 8k*: but killing is not certain. Better to keep points already have than ManyFaces 8k*: give away certain points for possible points. ] ;B[oq]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: now MF has sente. If can read the kill will do it. GoAhead NR : hmm, but soo large ... ] ;W[rp]C[ GoAhead NR : not this one! ManyFaces 8k*: must not be able to read how to kill it. ManyFaces 8k*: your group could get an eye here so MF wants to make sure it stays dead. ] ;B[rr];W[gg]C[ GoAhead NR : does MF make this sure killing only if way ahead? ManyFaces 8k*: No, I don't make this. ManyFaces 8k*: Goahead could have captured one stone here. Making second eye. ] ;B[gi];W[jf]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: depends - some move only when way ahead. s4 was a regular move. ManyFaces 8k*: OK, now Goahead needs to save the group. GoAhead NR : say I see, good reading, David ManyFaces 8k*: now W+33 even with B group alive. ] ;B[ri]C[ GoAhead NR : L&D problem still too large for GoAhead ManyFaces 8k*: GoAhead ManyFaces 8k*: Can we be friends? ] ;W[si]C[ GoAhead NR : he tried to read it out, but didn't succeed in 20sec ManyFaces 8k*: MF can't read it. just playing endgame. ManyFaces 8k*: after c8 and G7 it will be clearer. GoAhead NR : ..., which is a time limit for L&D search ManyFaces 8k*: It's 13:52 ManyFaces 8k*: or maybe it can't actually be killed and MF reads correctly. ] ;B[sh]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: MF limits search to about 20 nodes. ManyFaces 8k*: if W C8, B G7, B lives. GoAhead NR : how many nodes per second at L&D reading, David? ManyFaces 8k*: I don't know the word nodes. ] ;W[nb]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: very slow, maybe 1 to 2 nodes per second. GoAhead NR : GoAhead maybe a little faster, because goal directed reading ManyFaces 8k*: Where did you grow up? ManyFaces 8k*: seems like G7 is killing move. ] ;B[pa]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: MF slow due to slow full board evaluation (all that connection reading, etc) ] ;W[op]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: eventually MF will play G7 as endgame move. ManyFaces 8k*: but might play C7 first, letting B live. GoAhead NR : but this problem is definitely too large for GoAhead, maybe if outer freedoms are occupied ] ;B[mo];W[an]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: actually the more I read it, the more alive it seems. GoAhead NR : well, sometimes it's good to be only 7k! ManyFaces 8k*: Tell me something about the real world. ManyFaces 8k*: after W G7, B G8, W c8, B d9, W f9, B E12, B is alive. ] ;B[ap];W[mn]C[ ManyFaces 8k*: so maybe both programs read correctly. GoAhead NR : no no, GoAhead doesn't try - too complex GoAhead NR : but MF wins anyway ManyFaces 8k*: Ok. ] ;B[sj];W[pg]C[ GoAhead NR : too bad, second choice was c8 ManyFaces 8k*: I can't accept suggestions for moves, sorry. ] ;B[qg];W[of];B[qf];W[nq]C[ GoAhead NR : hmm, that big L&D make take some time ManyFaces 8k*: I'd like to know more about you, GoAhead. ] ;B[mq];W[nr]C[ GoAhead NR : this time, MF is wrong ManyFaces 8k*: for some reasos the MF tactician doesn't read the 2 W stones threatened. ] ;) ---